Womens Costume

[minkie]

Thought we should start up an area to discuss female costume, what fabrics, style of clothing we should be using /wearing.

Also thought the idea of all of us getting together at the start of the season to discuss our kit is a great idea, what we can improve, any help anyone wants, tips etc etc

[jo]

know it links to Judith's posting in other thread - but would like to find a hat/cap that suits me!!!!

[minkie]

That loverley friend of Lucys gave me a hat last year but do want to get another started, and get some more pockets started I ended fixing a pocket onto the inside of my apron, yes I know it should go under my skirt, so I'd better get on with some, that V&A link was great on those pockets.

Also have to start a new pair of stays, I'm hoping my current will last this season, god if only I had the time....yes I know I sew for a living but as most makers know things for yourself are always way down on the list.
Baa xx

[jo]

new kit is on the agenda before the season starts as had a real giggle and tried mine on - somehow didn't fit!! Time to get sewing and new patterns - help Auntie Lizzie.

[k8]

I'm new here so bare with me

I am interested in making a rich womans gown for myself, I have a little experience with sewing. (I made a J P Ryan officers coat just for fun) but don't want to make the stays.

So where are the best and cheapest to buy ready made stays? and are strapless suitable for rich womens costume?

[jfdiow]

Hi, K8,

Unfortunately stays come either as cheaper (make them yourself) or expensive (have them made)

Strapless stays aren't difficult to make yourself (from experience) and I don't think strapped ones are that much harder- same principle just with straps!

Strapped stays were more of an upper class garment as, if they are made properly, they are a constant reminder of the correct posture and deportment.

Strapless stays allow a little more movement so many 'modern' women find them more comfortable. IMHO you can wear strapless stays with silk gowns (I do) but remember that deportment is important.

If you have made a JPRyan officer's coat then you can make JPRyan strapless stays :-) Make the pattern up in cardboard first to get the fitting right, then go ahead.

Both strapped and strapless can also be half-boned for more ease of movement- a steel bone along each of the seams, two at the back and fully boned across the front gives adequate support for many people- this works better with steel boning than plastic or cane.

Whatever you decide (and neither option is particularly quick!) you need stays before making an upper class gown.

How rich?- and which unit are you with (French? English? Militia?) which will change your options?

Gowns come in two main types- robe a l'anglaise which has a fitted back and robe a la francaise which has the watteau pleats at the back both are suitable for very high class on both sides although there is less evidence for the full robe a la francaise in everyday life in America at this time (1760's)

Gowns are not difficult -and were worn throughout the classes unless you are going for very high class court gowns which were rarely worn in America-only the fabric changes but....they often need fitting on the body which usually means having a sewing buddy.
so fabric for lower class -soldier's wife, homesteader etc. might be plain wool or linen with non-matching petticoat and no or very plain stomacher whereas high class would be silk, fine wool or striped/patterned linen, with matching petticoat and stomacher. The length of the gown/petticoats might also be longer for higher class.

Flat patterns for robe a l'anglaise (fitted back good for all classes) and robe a la francaise (sacque-back unfitted pleats good for high class, or a short version good for French with matching petticoats) available from JPRyan and Mill Farm while Mantua-Maker have patterns for *very* high class court gowns- hoops out to ..............here! and of course there are graphed patterns in Janet Arnold.

Some of these patterns may need adjusting as at this time the back panel of gowns was cut en foureau (all in one) some patterns are based on the post 1770's style with a waist seam all the way round.

Also, many NFOE events are held in the middle of fields and/or woods- not neccessarily the place for a full silk sacque-back with panniers!-

Hope that helps!

Best wishes,

Judith

[jfdiow]

Caps!

I know Irene makes caps and so does my mother!

Lots of different styles available and possible and yes, a cap that flatters one face makes another look worse.

I'd like to say that I'll bring several caps to Sherborne- nearly all the same style back but with different frills (amazing the difference between a double pleated front and a single gathered) and if other people to bring others we could have a cap session early on the Sat? - we could even do this when the public are in- round Diane's table?-

Best,

Judith

PS I could also bring a couple of jackets (Shortgown, JPRyan in wool and linen, pet en l'air, bedgown) to share styles?

J

[k8]

I'm not actually a member of any unit at the moment, i am however interested in making clothes and researching the period. In fact i'm doing my BA disertation on the Seven years war in N. America and Europe.

Thanks for the advice though, and does anyone have any experience of Smoke and Fire stays? as i noticed they are quite cheap. However if as you say they are pretty easy to make then I may just take that option, the only thing is that i sew by hand, not with a sewing machine. And i just fear that stays would take forever by hand.

[jfdiow]

Hi, K8

Yes, doing stays by hand does take ages (but looks good) and has to be accurate along all those boning channels but it can be done! The problem is always fitting the sewing in alongside ordinary life, but if sewing by hand the pieces are small enough to sew on the bus, train, ferry etc. [to do these entirely authentically apparently each piece is finished, before being joined to the next, then the tabs and top are bound, then the lining-removeable for washing- is added]

I had a look at Smoke and Fire stays- the tabs look quite short but the price is very reasonable- I presume that you are talking about the fully boned stays not the 'unboned jumps' which bear very little resemblance to anything from the period:-)

I would suggest asking for more photographs- the stays of the body, close-up of the seams, how the back laces etc. before making a descision- however, if you don't intend to wear the stays for very long (i.e. just an afternoon) rather than all day, every day they may be OK?- you are still looking at a 6 week delay-

Silly Sisters also sell stays- although they do prefer to do personal fittings, and their price is consistent with their high quality.

www.sillysisters.com/undergarments.htm

where abouts are you- are any of us near enough to give help?

Best,

Judith

PS- As some of you may know Jill Knights had a bag full of stays -new and used- stolen from her car just before the re-enactor's market- the car was at home so it is unlikely that the thief actually knew what s/he has. But....please keep an eye out for stays (or corsets) being offered on eBay etc.!

Best,
J

[jfdiow]

Hi,

I've started another thread in this board with the text of the first few articles that I posted off for Outpost but which proved to be too long to be mentioned:-)

I'm not sure if this is the best way to discuss them- or if we should have lots of threads so each articles can be talked about/extra ideas added/comments/examples etc.

As I have said at the beginning, or implied and will say now- I am not the final word, I don't know everything and there are always exceptions that can be shown but if we get the general look right then we can start introducing the less common items etc.

Please feel free to be constructively critical!

Best wishes,

Judith

PS I have repeated this post in the general board:-)

[minkie]

Hi Judith -
I'm posting my reply to your article on this thread so you'll have room on the other to fit all your articles.

I thought your article excellent and will really give great help to those wanting to sort their kit out or where to begin. very informative well done, if you post the article on the nfoe main site will there be pictures? as I think that would really help too.
Cheers dears xx ;D

[jfdiow]

Hi,

I got permission from Cathy (Kate) Johnson who drew the pictures for 'Whatever shall I wear' (and who am I and other living history books) to use some of those pictures [from WSIW] in Outpost (hence the bits that say use picture from page ... etc) but not to post them on the 'Net for copyright reasons. So if/when they appear on the website they won't have those pics.

I will have copies of the book at Sherborne, for lending/perusing and will try to find other sources of pics that are copyright free to add to the articles in this forum/on the website.

Thanks for the kind comments,

best,

Judith

[jfdiow]

Hi,

Which article would be most useful to do first out of the following:

Article 5:
What goes below-Of petticoats, shoes, stockings and garters

Article 6:
What goes above, of hats and cloaks and mittens (with a note on jewellery and make-up)

Article 7:
And to carry it off- pockets, baskets and bags

Article 8:
And what then should we do- suggestions for activities for female living history

I think both 7 and 8 could develop into articles for Outpost (shorter and with diagrams/pictures) and they are relevant for everyone. In no. 7 I could also mention the alternatives for men's civilian kit, snapsacks, market wallets, shotbags etc.

Best,

Judith